tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6546468339418636140.post7430778117473488295..comments2024-01-12T04:58:49.069-05:00Comments on Kyrie, Eleison!: EleanorAnastasia Theodoridishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16092531121989260111noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6546468339418636140.post-57202334720531600762011-05-18T06:05:12.583-04:002011-05-18T06:05:12.583-04:00"Righteous indignation" was a bad choice..."Righteous indignation" was a bad choice of words on my part, although I'm not sure what term I should have used. What I meant was that experience of bearing a someone else's grudge which is different from bearing one another's burdens.Anam Carahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03960986859370967282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6546468339418636140.post-41967515794846294252011-05-17T22:48:06.809-04:002011-05-17T22:48:06.809-04:00Good observations, s-p; thank you.
This particula...Good observations, s-p; thank you.<br /><br />This particular friendship appears never to have been what I once thought it was. Can't rekindle what was never really kindled in the first place, so...<br /><br />But you never know. Fifteen years IS plenty of time for someone to have changed.Anastasia Theodoridishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16092531121989260111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6546468339418636140.post-59947994987175183022011-05-17T17:13:24.249-04:002011-05-17T17:13:24.249-04:00I will ditto Anam Cara's words. One can be cor...I will ditto Anam Cara's words. One can be cordial to ANYONE, but that doesn't mean you need to go out of your way to say hello to them in a crowded room or if you see them in public (before they see you). If you wish to clear the air then by all means you should sit down with her and say, "Is our relationship as uncomfortable for you as it is for me now?"... She may be clueless about the effects of her behavior, but I suspect not. People do bad things in the heat of passion and maybe she sobered up, maybe not. If the relationship is not worth an effort to salvage and you see no future in it then by all means, just smile, make small talk and move on to the next person.Steve Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04319784922747041297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6546468339418636140.post-51121794009990147592011-05-17T09:46:35.109-04:002011-05-17T09:46:35.109-04:00Many thanks to both of you for your sound and wise...Many thanks to both of you for your sound and wise words, which I shall try to take to heart.<br /><br />Emily, yes, I agree. And if one is to err, let it be on the side of love!<br /><br />Soulfriend, your advice to be cordial seems to me spot on. Yes, be cordial and give the other person a fresh chance. I think the "fresh chance" part is actually essential, and integral to the meaning of forgiveness.<br /><br />In the case of the priest, you're right I hadn't forgiven him all these years - and wasn't even aware of that! When somebody goes out of your life, your hard feelings tend never to bother you anymore, don't make themselves obvious. Instead of forgiving, I simply forgot. Until he came back, and all those feelings with him.<br /><br />In the case of Eleanor, her sins against me were too small to matter. I had no trouble forgiving her right away. <br /><br />But it wasn't so much righteous indignation (which would require me first to be righteous!) as loyalty to the husband's family, with which we have always been close, and pity for her children, and yes, a belated care for my own reputation, which suffered considerably from association with this disgrace. (Among Greeks, reputation is everything.) But I think if I try to do the right, my reputation won't suffer and if it does among certain people, so be it!<br /><br />Heartfelt thanks again to both of you.<br /><br />AnastasiaAnastasia Theodoridishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16092531121989260111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6546468339418636140.post-19881637717835139362011-05-17T08:23:35.105-04:002011-05-17T08:23:35.105-04:00The same is true of the priest you wrote about a f...The same is true of the priest you wrote about a few days ago. I have no idea what the man did that caused you to be grateful that he was gone. I do not know if it was a personal failure on his part, and affront to you individually, or just unpleasant things that were keeping God’s love from being experienced in your church. So I don’t know if he “owed” you a personal apology (so that you would know he was repentant). But it has been 15 years, you say! Have you changed in those 15 years? Could he have changed in those 15 years?<br /><br />“’I’m having a harder time.’ ... It would have been easier to forgive him if I knew whether he were the least bit repentant.” <br /><br />It sounds like over the 15 years you had never forgiven him for whatever it is that he did. You still harbored ill thoughts. <br /><br />“But "Out of sight, out of mind." How many others may there be I am not even conscious of not having forgiven, unless they too show up some day? It's easier to think you've forgiven someone who has gone away, out of your life, than to welcome him back.”<br /><br />Perhaps the answer is not to “welcome back” but to allow a new creature, one who has had many experiences since you last saw them, many which may have changed them, to enter into your life with a fresh start.<br /><br />You needn’t be friends with everyone, but you do need to love as God loves, wanting the very best for them. Your friendship, as hard as it seems, might not be the best for them. But be cordial, be considerate, make nice. As you navigate through the “getting to know you” you will know how deep that particular relationship should go.<br /><br />And if nothing else, all this should teach you to forgive ASAP so things like this don’t keep popping up years later.<br /><br />(sorry about the length - and maybe I'm wrong about all of it. Forgive me for any assumptions I have erroneously made. I probably should have stopped with "you are cordial.")Anam Carahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03960986859370967282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6546468339418636140.post-43490258634480879202011-05-17T08:23:03.634-04:002011-05-17T08:23:03.634-04:00“…how am I supposed to relate to him or her now?”
...“…how am I supposed to relate to him or her now?”<br /><br />I read this yesterday and didn’t want to answer hastily, so thought about it all night.<br /><br />And after all of that, I think the answer remains a simple one: you are cordial.<br /><br />I don’t see any reason why you have to pretend that someone is your bosom buddy. You had a relationship in the past, but no longer. Perhaps it could grow again, but maybe it has outlived its time.<br /><br />If you met a stranger, you would be pleasant, but not immediately intimate. If love covers a multitude of sins, and God has placed our sins as far as the east from the west, perhaps we should treat things the same way. As though, after all these years, we have no knowledge of the past. Do not judge on the past which may be exactly that – PAST. She may be a changed person. You don’t know from seeing her across a room.<br /><br />Instead be friendly, as you would to any stranger who appears. You have no relationship with her now, and you would be naturally a little cautious with a stranger who appeared, so put that same caution into effect here. You don’t have to instigate an immediate relationship with anyone you meet whether at church or on the street. If God has not called you to work with drug dealers, you wouldn’t take one home with you. You’d talk to someone, get some background, decide just what your place is with this person and go from there. You can do the same with her. Now you know some things about her, so you could ask about how the children are as opposed to saying, “do you have children?” to a perfect stranger. But you needn’t feel the need to approach her. Do you frantically talk to everyone who shows up at your church? Do you feel bad if you don’t spend a lot of time with each one? I’m betting not. Why is she different?<br /><br />You do not have to welcome with open arms. But who knows that your small courtesies might awaken something in her and cause repentance if it hasn’t happened all ready.<br /><br />In all of this with you, I see what might be called a “righteous indignation.” Eleanor behaved very badly. But I fail to see what she did personally to you. You did not enable her, so you were not drawn into her sin. In fact, you encouraged her to do what she should. In her free will, she decided what to do and when to do it. You might be upset that she didn’t do as you thought was right, but if you were upset with everyone who didn’t do what you wanted, you’d have no friends at all! I don’t see that she sinned against you. But perhaps that would be easier to forgive. You can easily forgive someone who offended you, but she offended God and you must defend His honor!<br /><br />(to be continued)Anam Carahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03960986859370967282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6546468339418636140.post-816091926141705392011-05-17T08:20:57.769-04:002011-05-17T08:20:57.769-04:00I am certainly no person to give advice. I remembe...I am certainly no person to give advice. I remember reading a saying of one of the saints (in the context of unbelievers who try to convince you of their point)that you should remain silent even if the other person presumes your silence means agreement with them. It was a sort of "aha" to read that the other's perception of you and even your pride of being seen to agree or not matters much less than loving the other person in silence and prayer. Perhaps it applies in this situation??<br /><br />How to show love without approval...? I wonder if the way a Christian lives their life is enough to show a simple and quiet disapproval, without having to say anything, and from there one can get onto the ascetic of loving.<br /><br />Then again I am rather naieve in the situation you describe and you should probably not listen to this fool. :}Emily H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12987266098792021337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6546468339418636140.post-71921695103739147732011-05-16T15:44:13.183-04:002011-05-16T15:44:13.183-04:00Demetrios says, and I expect he's right, the r...Demetrios says, and I expect he's right, the reason no moral answer emerges for this question is that it isn't a moral issue in the first place. He says if you hae given up your hard feelings toward another, that is, have forgiven him, then the moral issue is resolved. The further issue of what to say, what do do, how to act if the other is unrepentant is not a moral issue, but a practical one. How to show love without showing approval is a skill to be learned. Like navigating between Scylla and Charybdis, I suppose.<br /><br />And the way to learn it is by practice, and probably by failing sometimes, unfortunately.<br /><br />But at least we aren't stumbling around blindly. We have the example of Jesus to guide us, Who dealt with many sinners and managed it perfectly all the time; and we have the Holy Spirit's inner promptings, as well.Anastasia Theodoridishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16092531121989260111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6546468339418636140.post-29274714657439725632011-05-16T15:41:56.152-04:002011-05-16T15:41:56.152-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anastasia Theodoridishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16092531121989260111noreply@blogger.com